Bird vs. Magic. Tastes Great vs. Less Filling. Tabula Rasa vs. Collective Subconscious. There are some debates that are simply ageless, but few can match the intensity that sparks between the strict devotees of Gene Roddenberry's intergalactic voyages and the zealous apostles of George Lucas's operatic space adventure. We called a momentary truce, laid out a peace offering of Big Gulps and snack cakes, and brought ambassadors from each side together to hash things out. On the Trek side, we have Jonathan Lane, Chief of Communications for STARFLEET, the international Star Trek fan association. On the Wars side, we have Mark Fordham, former president of the 501st Legion. Lightsabers and phasers were checked at the door.

THE STORY

LANE: "Obviously, the thing about Star Trek is that it's a vision of a hopeful future for Earth. It says that all this crap that we have in the 20th century and the 21st century, we get through it. The race riots, and the wars, and the smog and the disease and the famine. We get through all that. Not only do we unite Earth, we move out to explore strange new worlds, and to contact new civilizations, and form a united Federation of planets with them. So there's a lot of very hopeful optimism in Star Trek which can be very refreshing. You know many science fiction programs aren't nearly as optimistic as that. And besides, for that Star Trek fans, there's so much richness of history. You can be a fan of one of any 5 different television series, with over 650 filmed hours. Or any of the 11 different movies. The characters are diverse, and maybe you're not a Captain Kirk and Spock fan, maybe you like Picard and Warf and Data. Or maybe you're into Odo and Sysco, or maybe you Kathryn Janeway or maybe you like Seven of Nine. I suppose the last thing I could say is that George Lucas has said that without Star Trek, there would be no Star Wars. Of course, you could say that without Star Wars, Star Trek never would have been brought back. So I think both franchises owe a lot to the other."

FORDHAM: "Star Wars tended to impact people almost immediately, when you ask people when they became a Star Wars fan, they'll usually say, 'A few seconds into the movie.' You know, when the Star Destroyer came on the screen and at that point you were hooked and it became a very compelling story and genre to follow. It's very interesting that it's not really futuristic—George chose to portray it as a long time ago, something that happened before, in a place far far way. And it has the timeless Good vs. Evil which I think is something that people are always attracted to. Not only that, but the aspects of redemption and faith and that single individuals can make a difference in the seemingly vast galaxy. I think those things appeal to fans everywhere, and certainly worldwide, having served as the President of the 501st for some time, the "Star Club" alone is found in 47 countries. It's transcended cultural barriers that you might think would be there, and has become a timeless classic too. Certainly there's more of a mythological aspect to it. Star Trek often times, especially with the older series, was more or less commentary on social issues of the time."

THE HEROES

LANE: "I think that I certainly will tip my hat to George Lucas for creating really great archetypical characters. Though Star Trek, in my opinion, is much more complex. The characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy have been compared to, for the erudite and the academic, the id, the ego and the superego. Spock was very much the logic and emotionless brain, he was the one who brought everything down to a simple equation. McCoy was the human element of the equation, he was about humanity. The interplay between Spock and McCoy gave Kirk his two sources of information: thought and feeling, for him to be, in this case, the ego, to make those commanding decisions, and also sometimes to go with his gut. Sometimes it'd be what Spock wanted to do, sometimes he'd do what McCoy wanted to do, sometimes he's just pull something out of his hat. Star Trek has a wealth of so many different characters with different human strengths and human weaknesses. It's beyond just Kirk, Spock and McCoy, throughout the forty year history you've had characters who didn't fit into their societies. Spock felt that he wasn't part of either human or Vulcan societies. Warf, you know, the Klingon, was a fish out of water. Having to be a Klingon amongst humans. Data, the android—the only one of his kind! Very interesting and rich characters which are both archetypical in some ways, but at the same time very, very human."

FORDHAM: "I must confess that my experience with Star Trek is the original TV series. I don't follow the variants. But every great story has a great hero. In both cases, Star Trek and Star Wars, it wasn't a single hero; it was a team of heroes. You got a very compelling group for Star Wars: The underdog, the farm boy who comes from nothing to fighting the most sinister forces in the galaxy. You've got the studly swaggering pirate, the sexy feisty princess, the mysterious furry giant and the comical duo of droids. You've got something in there for everybody. It makes a great team, an unlikely team, but it adds the intrigue. Looking at Star Trek, that team, you've got a pointy eared guy with no emotions, a medical officer who spends most of his time pronouncing people dead, an engineer who questions the faculties of his own ship, and on and on. A good team, but it didn't have quite the grab bag of individuals which I think Star Wars had."

THE VILLAINS

LANE: "Star Trek has a number of many popular villains—the Klingons, the Romulans and the Borg. Some of the alien races that come to mind when people think of Star Trek. But even these races have become very complex over the course of Star Trek's history, something that doesn't happen with Star Wars. You could argue that Darth Vader went through a character evolution, but for the most part were always evil. The Klingons, on the other hand, they were one of the bad guys in the 1960s, but by the 1980s and 1990s they were one of the allies of the federation. We are learning to understand them. They are a society that looks from a distance to be a war hungry, sword wielding, disruptor blasting bullies, but in fact we discover they are very honor bound in society much like the Japanese culture, where honor and duty turn out to be the most important aspects of their private and spiritual life. Klingons are very spiritual, who would have thought? With the Romulans, they are not your typical baddies either; they are an offshoot of the Vulcans. I think one of the greatest villains in Star Trek was Khan Noonien Singh—the genetically engineered superman out of time, from the 20th century, picked up by Kirk 300 years later. He's fascinating because initially Kirk thought he was picking up a bunch of people who would be hard pressed to fit into the future, that they would probably be in awe of it. But instead he discovered that they were exiled, genetically engineered superman, and when given the opportunity, learned and adapted very quickly to the 23rd century, almost took over the Enterprise, and lord knows what they would have been able to do with it had Kirk not stopped them. Ultimately, Khan grew into a very complex character, as the second Star Trek movie portrayed him as an obsessed Captain Ahab. He wanted nothing but revenge against Kirk for what he had done, 15 years later. As powerful and as brilliant as Khan was, he was brought down by a very human failing, an obsessive misguided need for revenge."

FORDHAM: "Darth Vader has been called the most recognizable villain of all time. And, uh, is listed as number three in American Film Institutes's greatest movie villains. You know the breath thing (imitates Vader's asthmatic breathing)—all that imagery is conjured up by that simple sound. Just like the Jaws theme. It's as iconic as can be. We can talk about how he came to be but really he's just a great villain. He of course eventually has redemption, comes back, but there are plenty of bad guys, incompetent bad guys, intelligent bad guys, sometimes even fighting among themselves. Sometimes you're not sure which side of the line they fall on. Jawas, Tusken Raiders, characters like that are thrown into the mix, too. I think that Star Wars achieved a phenomenally timeless character with Darth Vader and many of the others as well. I think that even people who haven't seen the films know who Darth Vader is."

THE SHIPS

LANE: "If the Millennium Falcon fought the Enterprise, well, the Falcon has lasers, which, you know, were like 100 years before Kirk. We've got phasers! And as far as I know, there are no photon torpedoes on the Falcon. Ha!"

FORDHAM: "That's not a fair comparison! The Falcon is a very small vehicle. I think it's like a speedboat against the Titanic. It could dodge whatever the Enterprise threw at it, sure, but it would be hard-pressed to do any damage. An Imperial Star Destroyer would be a much better match. The Imperial Cruiser was designed for battle, but the Enterprise was designed for peaceful missions, with defensive weapons."

THE FEMALES

LANE: "Star Wars only has two, but Trek has something for everyone. There's Seven of Nine from Voyager, T'Pol in Enterprise, and Jadzia Dax from Deep Space Nine, to name a few. And the new Uhura, Zoe Saldana? I would not kick her out of bed…but my wife would."

FORDHAM: "Two words: Metal bikini. Ah, Princess Leia, what a wonderful character. But there are more than two. There's Padme, of course, there's Anakin's mother, Aunt Beru, the Tusken females…

LANE: "Sand people? You're reaching pretty deep there."

THE CREATORS

LANE: "Gene Roddenberry presented a vision of Earth's which has gotten beyond war and racial strife. I'm not sure Star Wars will be able to constantly reinvent itself past George Lucas."

FORDHAM: "Lucas isn't caught up in a futuristic vision. He's a storyteller looking for ways to tell stories. If you're looking for a getaway, what better way to disconnect from reality than to be thrown into someone else's life galaxies away?"